Emily Anadu lays out The Lay Out

By Brian Braiker

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The year 2020 was a game-changer for a lot of people. A global pandemic forced us all into lockdown and isolation in March. In May after months of pent-up stress and frustration, the world watched as George Floyd, 46-year-old Black man, was murdered in Minneapolis by a white cop triggering nationwide protests and demonstrations, including here in Brooklyn.

After one night of particularly destructive protests in Fort Greene — one that saw a Molotov cocktail thrown into a police van — Emily Anadu wanted to bring back the sense of love, community and Black joy that she’d come to cherish about her Fort Greene home. So she brought some friends together and organized a community get-together in the park. People came — like 500 hundred of them — and so The Lay Out was born.

The need for gathering was so intense that Anadu quickly scheduled a second Lay Out event days later, this time with DJs, for its 2020 Juneteenth celebration. And this time even more people came.

“Because we were outdoors, we always had a partner that did PPE. We were always very clear with people to wear masks. We were always very clear with people about don’t impose hugging if people don’t want to hug,” she says. “I truly want it to be a community and not an audience. Because I’ve been on the marketing side. I love a good audience, don’t get me wrong, but for this, it’s just different.”

Anadu, who has grown The Lay Out into a sprawling community platform with events year-round and offshoots like BuyBLK.ByBLK. — a marketplace for Black creators and makers — is this week’s guest on “Brooklyn Magazine: The Podcast.” The Lay Out’s parties now attract thousands of attendees and increasingly big brands. (Full disclosure, Brooklyn Magazine, not one of those big brands, has teamed up with The Lay Out in the past for holiday markets and our summer movie series in the park, which we’ll be doing again this year. Check it out at bkmag.com/movies for details.)

I spoke with Anadu on the eve of The Lay Out’s fourth annual Juneteenth party, which was held over the weekend in Fort Greene Park, as she was in the final stages of preparation. If you missed it, you missed it. But you can check out coverage of the event here and on our social networks. You can also follow The Lay Out on their Instagram account for more info there.

Anadu and I discussed the origins of The Lay Out and her own background as someone who was born in Texas and raised in Nigeria, before returning to Houston for middle school. We talk about building community and we talk about what’s next for The Lay Out.

The following is a transcript of our conversation, which airs as an episode of “Brooklyn Magazine: The Podcast,” edited for clarity. Listen in the player above or wherever you get your podcasts.

Emily, welcome to Brooklyn Magazine: The Podcast. It’s wonderful to see you here. I am really grateful, given how incredibly busy you must be, especially right now.
It’s always good to reconnect with the friends, people that I’ve had a chance to work with before, particularly at this time, what I just want to see and hear, a warm voice and a warm face. So thank you.

Wow, that’s nice of you to say. I did want to start by saying that you and I have collaborated a bit a couple of times over the past couple of years through Brooklyn Magazine and The Lay Out. I’ve always been so impressed by what and how you organize and the strength and scale of the community you’ve built in really a relatively short time. So I just wanted to say that I’m really impressed with everything you’ve done.
Thank you.

And let’s talk about what you’ve done. The Lay Out is the main thing. The Lay Out celebrates Blackness through music, self-care, dancing, markets and more. You’ve had events that have drawn in thousands of attendees more or less out the gate. I’ve been to a couple. For people who don’t know what a Lay Out event is, can you briefly explain? We will talk about how it came into being, but what is a Lay Out event?
I think you did a pretty good job in describing it. So what I described The Lay Out as, now it is basically this joy ecosystem, which is comprised of Black expression, social impact, and cooperative economics, all in the spirit of centering Black joy.

And so the events are somewhat hard to describe and I think the one thing that links them all, because to your point, while we have events that are thousands and thousands and thousands of people, some of my favorite events are the ones that are six people or seven people. But because those are the ones where I feel like people actually get to connect. But it’s truly just about, when I think about those three verticals that I described in terms of the makeup, that joy ecosystem, it’s the ability to just feel free, to just be.

And one of my favorite pictures from Juneteenth last year is actually there’s a woman who is re-twisting someone’s dreadlocks in the middle of 3,000 people, and she had the whole setup that you would normally think of having in someone’s home in their kitchen, where she had the clips, she had the gel. But for me, that moment just symbolized that she felt at home even in the middle of 3,000 people.

And so I think that freedom to just be. Social impact, I recognize that we are very lucky. When I say we, I think speak of just the community that has the disposable time even just to come and be able to enjoy the events, the disposable income to be able to participate in the events that are paid. So it’s always important for me that we’re giving back, that we always have two partner organizations we work with for that. And so there’s always some component of social impact. And then cooperative economics, which you and I have had the chance to work with before, in that we did our BuyBLK.ByBLK. market together over the holidays in 2022.

I can’t believe it’s been that long.
I know it’s crazy. But that’s just the reality in New York City. While New York City has about a 22% Black population, only 3.5 percent of businesses are owned by Black owners, entrepreneurs. So it really is just trying to make sure that there are opportunities for people to get their wares in front of everyone.

But for me, that cooperative economics and BuyBLK.ByBLK., not only is the markets, but it’s also the idea that if I’m working with a partner, say Max, formally HBO, that any vendors they need, that I have them pull from that network. So it’s not only, again, just the markets and what you see in front of you, but it’s the behind-the-scenes and trying to get the dollars circulating.

The Lay Out is just fun. You’ll see smiles, you’ll see joy, and you’ll know that underneath what you see, that there are so many tentacles to it that are just providing joy.

What are those smaller events you’re doing? Workshops, classes, financial education, what is it?
We probably could use some financial education. Financial stability definitely is a path to joy. So these smaller events, we literally started them at the beginning of 2023, when I was just like, “Oh my God, there’s so many people.” And something that I always say that people are surprised by, is I’m actually an introvert. I’m an extreme introvert.

Really? I wouldn’t have guessed that.
No one does. People think I’m lying. I’m like, why would I lie about being an introvert? But I’m not shy, but just the way that I recharge and get my energy is I have to be in smaller groups. I have to have time in my head. I have to have time for conversations that feel deeper. So when I recognize that while The Lay Out has grown to be this huge community, that particularly in a place like New York, it’s honestly very easy to feel lonely.

The first of the small events I started was something called The Make Out, because I love having fun with names. I’m a marketing person at heart. The Make Out is workshop series. We’ve made ashtrays; we went to a clay making workshop and made ashtrays ahead of 4/20, because I hear that’s kind of a good link.

We did a lingerie workshop where we literally from scratch picked out lace, French lace, all these other things and sewed bralettes. We did a neon light tube making workshop. My goal is that you make something that you become really annoying to your friends. I want your friends when you’re showing off, to be like, I get it. I get it. You made it with your own hands. Yep. You melted the glass, you sold that. We get it.

But those are wonderful because the stakes are lower. You’re busy with your hands and no matter what, you know that the other less than 12 people that are in the room just had that same common interest. So The Make Out is one that’s been a lot of fun.

One of the crazier ones I started this year is called The Wash Out. I promise I had the idea before André 3000 started professing his love for laundromats. Very simple idea for The Wash Out is especially when you think about in New York, particularly with Gen Z, and then just I think the larger macro environment where there is this epidemic of loneliness, particularly for Gen Z, they spend 1000 less in-person hours than previous generations, which is a wild number to…

That’s a crazy stat. I haven’t heard that.
Yeah. The Surgeon General actually put out an advisory last year because it’s really truly, it’s that bad. A 1000 hours in a year when you think about your waking hours is not insignificant by any means. If you think about New York, if you think about the likelihood of having it a part of a washer and dryer in your unit, that’s like lotto status. That’s like billion dollar lotto status.

I don’t have one.
To have one in your building for a lot of people is not the thing. And so how do you take an activity that you don’t really want to do, but turn it into something that’s a little more fun to do? That, and also just to get in that spirit of cooperative economics and supporting a Black business, once a month I take over Pearl Lee’s Washtub in Crown Heights, which is just a ton of fun. He makes amazing food. So there’s drinks, there’s food, there’s laundry, there’s games.

And it’s interesting because I would say that realistically only about 20 percent or 30 percent of people do their laundry. I’m actually shocked when people come in there with their laundry. But the point is that we get together, we play games, and it’s just being in a different environment. So The Wash Out has been a lot of fun.

And then Nourish Me, Nourish My Community, which is just I think all three of the verticals together. So many brands and groups do these influencer dinners, and you’re so special if you’re there. And that’s cute, and I love that. But for me, just the idea that with The Lay Out community, I always want to make sure that there’s a bigger purpose. So it’s basically done in partnership with Infatuation and it’s to support One Love Community Fridge, who we’ve been supporters of since we began.

And so basically I take a Black chef out of their restaurant and then we go to a cooking school in Williamsburg, because everyone has to actually be able to get around a burner or be in a kitchen space. And it’s part cooking school, part family dinner. But this meal for 20 people funds 500 meals for the community. And we’ve been lucky enough to have chefs like Mike and Nicole from Aunts & Uncles. We had Rasheeda Purdie from Ramen by Rā. We’ve had Eden from Makina Cafe.

And those events are just amazing. Because it’s fun, we argue about who made the best broccolini. I did, obviously. So again, just these smaller events where people get to talk. And what I find is that when the bigger events happen, people see each other from across the room. When they know one more person in a more intimate fashion I feel like that really holds the community together even more
.
For sure.And we are talking before Juneteenth. This will be out after your Juneteenth event, but before June 19. It’s big tent pole event, kind of like your Super Bowl almost.
That’s how I refer to it, our Super Bowl.

All right. I nailed it! It hasn’t happened yet. It’s going to be a great event. What’s the Juneteenth celebrations? It’s in Fort Greene Park. And unfortunately if you’re listening, it’s already happened, but you can go next year. What’s the deal?
So The Lay Out actually turned four on June 7th, so The Lay Out is a Gemini and all that comes with that. But we are actually celebrating our 5th annual Juneteenth celebration, so 2020, ’21, ’22, ’23, ’24. And so here we are with the fifth annual celebration.

I actually called it, or we’re calling this one, the Five On It Edition, like the Luniz song. Everyone knows that five gets you nothing now, so it’s definitely not a reference to that, but it is this idea that we have all put in on this community and it is all about the collective joy that we will have together.

As you mentioned, it’s in Fort Greene Park. Fort Greene has always been the home base, and we’ll talk about that a little more when we get into the origins of The Lay Out. But they have been such amazing partners. We would’ve been back in Fort Greene by the time you’ve heard, this airs. But so excited that so many brands have come out to support. And it’s crazy to me when I think about the first Lay Out, the first Juneteenth in 2020, I think it cost me $125, that I bought some hand sanitizer.

Right. It was peak pandemic. You’re social distancing.
And so this one obviously when you talk about an event that draws over 5,000 people, it is no longer $125.

And Fort Greene Park’s all on board? No pushback with the crowds or anything?
While “just” a public park, I think it is a shared resource that we all have as a city, as a community, as a neighborhood. The relationship with Fort Greene Park is very much built on a mutual respect. And I would say that also because Fort Greene has, in the 19 years that I’ve lived in the neighborhood, it has changed quite a bit. And to be clear, as a neighborhood continues to change, last year we unfortunately had a lot of people calling the police reporting the event to the Citizen app. And it’s like, about what? Too many smiles? Is there a glare off the white teeth? It’s blinding you? I don’t know. Can’t catch the beat and you’re upset?

They have been great partners. No pushback. If anything, support and push back against those who push back, who push us.

We’ve worked with them too and we’re working with them this summer for our movie series in the park. They are great.
Can’t wait. “Love and Basketball.”

Yeah, you know it.
One thing I’m very proud of is that it truly is an event for all ages, for all people. I also want to be clear, that while Juneteenth is about Black people, it is not for Black people. For me, Juneteenth at the end of the day is when this nation started living up to the Declaration of Independence in terms of all men are created equal, there was an 89-year gap between Juneteenth and the Declaration of Independence. So it truly is something that is for everyone.

So as you mentioned earlier, we have everything from the BuyBLK.ByBLK. Market, so over 40 Black-owned brands with everything from food, to candles, to apparel. There won’t be huge brand activations that are pushing what a brand wants. It’s all about celebrating the things that already happened in this community. So for example, with Adidas community, we’re doing double Dutch. Double Dutch has been something that is always part of The Lay Out, from the first time June 7th [2020], people brought out telephone cords to double Dutch with. Adidas will be supporting that. A local crew from Brooklyn Elite Jumper’s will be teaching people, they can teach anyone how to double Dutch in 30 seconds or less. It’s amazing.

I have these crazy ideas and then I get obsessed with them, but I’m like, no, this will happen. And so one of the things I’m most excited about is that we’re actually building a community flower mural. So similar to the style of paint by numbers, but instead you’ll be painting instead of picking up your red crayon in the one, attendees will actually be able to pick out a flower that is in a single color and then put it in the mural where it’s supposed to go.

And by the end of, hopefully not too long, because we need it as a backdrop, will be as a community spelling out the words “JOY” in flowers. So really excited about that, but supported by Adidas. We’ll also have the Brooklyn Nets and Liberty. Ellie’s coming out to say hi. We’ll be doing a meditation. We always start the events with the meditation.

We also this year have Kings County Tennis League, Turner and Bleacher Report doing kids tennis clinics, adult tennis clinics. There’s so much going on as Adidas. We have actually Infatuation, we’re doing one of the things, I’m very proud of it, just in continuing that support of One Love and recognizing that Fort Greene Park to this intersection, where you have NYCHA housing, but on less than a quarter mile away you have multimillion dollar brownstones.

We’ll be doing a free produce market in partnership with One Love Community Fridge. And so that was close to 2000 pounds of fresh produce that will be given away. It is set up like a free farmer’s market, no questions asked. We have shopping bags. People can take whatever they want. Whatever you want, go for it.

We’ll obviously have the DJs, are a big part of what I think of, like take them to church. Because there’s nothing like being able to turn to your neighbor and know that you’re singing a song together that you love. Those are some of the most beautiful moments, and so really excited to have Amazon Music doing that. But we’ll have some of the original DJs from the first Juneteenth, like Quiana Parks, who was our first DJ, Black ID Twins, DJ9AM. One of our newer DJs, DJ King Season, Olivia Dope, Moresoupplease.

So also, music is a big part. And it’s gotten to be this thing where DJs want to DJ at The Lay Out, because there’s nothing like DJing outside under a beautiful sky to 1000s of people. So I could just go on, it’s just going to be joy. It’s going to be a good time and joy and happiness.

Even the way you’re describing it is gotten much bigger and the scale has gotten so massive, more than I had fully realized. Let’s go back to the beginning because Lay Out launched in 2020. As you said, Juneteenth wasn’t the first, it was the second event in 2020, right? It was after the murder of George Floyd, after the big protests. What’s the initial impulse?
I’m originally from Nigeria and then Houston. And Houston. Growing up there was this concept, and I think in a lot of cities, mostly in the South where we have big-ass parking lots. After the club, there’s always the let out. So the let out is literally where people go. They take their cars. Typically, IHOP parking lots are the best place to do that because IHOP’s open for 24 hours. So you can go get some pancakes while you’re just sitting on the parking lot. But it was literally just this idea of taking up space. That wasn’t the intention, but it was just a good time.

For me growing up in California. It was Denny’s, but go ahead.
Yeah, definitely like a Denny’s. IHOP. But anything with pancakes, eggs and open 24 hours, that’s where the let outs had happened. As I mentioned at the time, I’d been in Fort Greene for about 15 years and for 10 of those years I lived right on Washington Park, which borders Fort Greene Park. Following George Floyd’s murder, as you mentioned, and just all of the protests. There was one particularly bad protest that ended up at the park where unfortunately a Molotov cocktail was thrown into a police van.

Luckily no one was in it. The police van exploded, and I remember that when I went to bed that night, the street looked like a Jerry Bruckheimer movie. There was cobblestone, there was things on fire. It was insane. And I woke up the next morning, probably like 5:30, 6:00 in the morning, and I took a broom and a dustpan out to the street. Because I was like, we’re going to have to clean up all that shit.

This was a Friday night overnight into a Saturday. And crazy enough, because even though it was the pandemic, the farmer’s markets had started again. And I remember going outside like 6:00, 6:30 as the farmer’s market was setting up, and it was like nothing had happened. It was like nothing had happened the night before. It was complete erasure. And there was literally that night, there was so much pain. There was a man who was facing off against NYPD saying he was willing to die, but he was not going to move off that street.

It was such an emotional night, and it was also a perfect day. The birds were chirping, the Mutsu apples were popping at the farmer’s market. It was like nothing happened. But I get on to DeKalb where the police van was and someone had swept the ashes of the van into the words “Black Lives Matter.” So you could actually still see there was a helmet, you could see distinct parts of the vehicle, but that was the only thing that was left. That was the only sign that anything had happened.

To this day, no one knows who did that. I wish I did. Over the next few days, people would come and see this, and it became this memorial. There was the Wednesday of that week, it was going to rain, and I remember thinking, that’s so sad. The memorial is going to wash away. At this point there were already curfews, had been put in place. So I go out there once after it rained, and amazingly the ashes were still there. They had been a bit damaged or a bit like the shape wasn’t as clear, but they were still there. And I just remember thinking, if they’re still going to be here, I’m going to help them be here.

Starting the next morning I started basically taking care of the ashes and sweeping them into shape and protecting them and cleaning them up and just tending to them like they were my garden.

How big are we talking about? Are they like a foot tall?
It was probably about 10 feet tall by about 12 feet wide on the sidewalk. There’s actually, crazy enough I’m in Spike Lee’s documentary “Epicenters,”CK about taking care of the ashes because it literally just became my daily thing every morning for six months. I was out there with the ashes. And people knew that’s where to find me at 6:00, 7:00 in the morning.

But I remember at the time, because there was something about my heart that wasn’t okay with seeing people just hanging out in the park. Like we had just watched a snuff video. Honestly, just with the neighborhood changing… And I recognize that I am part of gentrification. Gentrification at the end of the day is a socioeconomic issue that just unfortunately typically falls on racial minds. It’s not inherently a racial issue.

I missed the Fort Greene that I moved to. I missed Soul Summit every Sunday. I missed what used to be a park, where I started to feel othered in that park. I was like, you know what? I just want a day where we’re just The Lay Out, and it was literally named after the concept of the let out. But I was like, I just want to take up space. I want to take up space. I want to see Black people back in the park.

Unapologetically, yeah.
Unapologetically. And not doing, but just being Black in the park. So I spoke the idea out loud on Thursday, June 4th — all this is so burned into my mind — in a group chat. I was lucky enough to have four wonderful people, Bri McClaine, Britteny Escovedo, Michael Oloyede and Cy Aaron come rally with me and help make it happen.

By Friday the next morning or Friday at 1 p.m. the next day we had the flyer out. That Sunday, June 7th, we did the first one. Over 500 people came. There were no DJs. The idea was peace is a form of resistance. And it just went so well that we started getting that question, “When is the next one?”

Twelve days later, we did Juneteenth. We had DJs for the first time because I met Quiana Parks after the first one. She was like, “you should have DJs.” I was like, “well, I was thinking about a big radio, but sure.” And the park has always been supportive of us, really the origins. And I remember because even just recently I had the DJs together for what I call the DJ Summer camps. We did our second one at Serato, and we were all talking about for that first one, that moment, because it was the first time all of us have been together. Imagine, we went inside on March 13 and this was June. So that feeling on June 7th of like, can I hug you? Or just like, how do we behave with each other?

People literally described The Lay Out as having saved their lives. I don’t think people are being hyperbolic, in that it was a time when we were so alone, there was so much emotion that we just needed each other. And I think while a moment of extreme pain brought us together, the resilience of the community, it has just been joy since. I’m so proud. I’m so proud of it.

It’s impressive. So really just flyers for the first one, that brought out 500. And social media?
Oh, no. And digital. Bree made the logo. We got the Instagram account. Someone is still squatting on at The Lay Out. Girl, give us our account. Anyway, the five of us just asked our friends to share it. Britteny got D-Nice to share it. I’m sure that helped. But we literally had 500 people at the first one and Juneteenth there were 1,200 people showed up, which to be clear is super awkward during a pandemic. We were all like, let’s not celebrate until after there was a mass testing.

But I think because we were outdoors, we always had a partner that did PPE. We were always very clear with people to wear masks. We were always very clear with people about don’t impose hugging if people don’t want to hug. Then, that summer, the first summer, we also did one with the Wide Awakes, which was absolutely amazing. We started even in our first summer, thousands of people coming. Thousands.

And it’s just become this thing where I always say that if brands or partners are looking for millions of followers, I’m actually very clear that I don’t have an audience, I have a community. And I’m very clear when brands want to pay to promote posts when we’re doing stuff together, I’m like, please don’t do that. I don’t want people to come to us because they saw an ad. I want people to come to us because a friend told them about it. I truly want it to be a community and not an audience. Because I’ve been on the marketing side. I love a good audience, don’t get me wrong, but for this, it’s just different.

That was a lovely way to put that actually, the difference between audience and community. We’re trying to build both. It’s hard. But you mentioned brands, which is a nice segue. You’ve been sponsored by companies like Max/HBO, haircare brand Shea Moisture, BBDO ad agency. Crass question, but you’re able to monetize. Is this essentially your full-time job at this point, or does it all go back into The Lay Out?
I’ll say this, we’re unintentionally non-profit. So I’m not a 501(c)(3). I very much look at The Lay Out as a startup.

Do you use the word EBITDA when you’re talking about The Lay Out?
I try to stay away from that. So I would say that right now, because if you think about, again, the event in the park is a free event. And the partners definitely help enable it and help make it happen. But for myself, again, I had a 20 plus corporate career. I know that’s hard to believe since I’m obviously only 26.

Yeah, I know. I was going to say, you started at 6 years old. [Laughs]
I started at 6. It’s nowhere near financially what I was doing before. So now I don’t have cable anymore. I used to travel all the time. I don’t travel. So my life, I’ve made choices in my life, because for me, The Lay Out is worth it.

I think for what it does for the community, it’s worth it. And I also think that, to be clear, I think that there’s a long game to this. I think that there will be more brands who support. I want The Lay Out to always be a community. When I think about BuyBLK.ByBLK —

It’s a marketplace for Black makers, Black-owned small businesses. Yes?
Yes. And right now, that I’m very bullish on. That, I want an audience. That can stop being community. Because at the end of the day, I want people to be able to do well. So I think that there are venues through The Lay Out umbrella that it will be able to sustain me eventually.

But right now I just look at it like the 20-plus [year] corporate career I had with companies like Nike and launching brands like Street Fighter. I just think of them as my early investors to be able to do this. That savings has definitely dwindled. But again, I think it’s worth it for what it does. I’m lucky to have amazing partners like Brooklyn Navy Yard, Atlantic Terminal is a great partner in terms of space, being able to do these markets.

I do think there’s a long game in this, and when I do think about where The Lay Out sits, the people are, so they’re like, “oh, you’re a party promoter.” I’m like, “no.” People are like, “oh, you’re an events company.” I’m like, “no.” They’re like, “but you throw events.” I’m like, “no. I’m a community platform that exists to center Black joy, which typically manifests itself through events, but I’m not an events company.” So slight difference, the big difference.

I know that this will work, and when I say I know it will work, I know that I will be able to continue to do for the community and not have to eat Top Ramen. I like real ramen. Not that Top Ramen’s not. But I imagine a world where there’s real ramen in my life.

I’ll take you to Chuko sometime.
Or I’ll take you to Ramen by Rā, if we can get it seat at the counter. Because that one’s a hard ticket to get.

Let’s do it. You were raised in Nigeria. I think you mentioned that. You came to the U.S. — not just U.S., but Texas — in the sixth grade. I can’t imagine the level of culture shock that young Emily must’ve experienced. What was that like?
So my mom is Black American, my father’s Nigerian, they met in undergrad. They both went to Tufts. I was actually born in Houston, but basically my mom pushed us all out here. But then we lived in Nigeria. I was in Nigeria until up through sixth grade, as you said. So I started seventh grade, culture shock does not do it justice. And I will say that I did have some familiarity with Houston, in that we would come to visit my grandmother once or twice a year. So I was very fortunate in that way that I was able to have a foot in each country, on each continent. The concept of race, I honestly didn’t really understand it until I moved to the U.S. Because crazy enough, my school in Nigeria, I went to the American International School. Literally the theme song was “Love in Any Language.” I’ll be happy to sing you a few bars later on.

I grew up very focused on nationality and tribe. Race was not the top of mind. I thought of my friend group as the Israelis versus the ones from Switzerland. I thought very much about nationality.

So it was mixed race, though. You just weren’t thinking along those lines.
If anything, it was very mixed race. But funny enough, and people are always surprised to hear this, in any one of my classes of about 30 students, there was never more than four or five other Black students. Nothing about that. I never looked at and thought like, oh, wow, there’s only a few Black people. If anything, I would think like, oh, wow, there’s only a couple of Americans in this class.

I would think about how many people there were by nationality. And then amongst the Nigerians, I would think about, oh, the Ibibios versus Yoruba, versus a few Hausas. My school in Nigeria, the president at the time, President Babangina, his son was actually a year ahead of me and in my sister’s class. It was a really, really good school. My brain categorizes people very differently.

But even in the book “Caste,” there’s a part where a woman says to Isabel Wilkerson, you don’t become Black until you go to the U.S. or you go to Europe, because race is just such a social construct. So for me, I would say that the culture shock of it was going from a school that again, celebrated nationalities, it celebrated tribe, to a school, a very poor school.

In my mom’s side of the family, we lived in Fifth Ward in Houston. I went to Burbank Middle School, which was 70 percent Hispanic, 20 percent Black, 10 percent white. And then even the way people categorize it wasn’t Hispanic. It was like people would say 70 percent Mexican. And so for me, that was culture shock. But then also for me, I think the difference was that I just went from a private school where we all loved being super smart to, I had never seen two kids fight. I had never in my life seen anyone talk back to a teacher.

I came back home on the first day of school, my grandmother was a nurse in a public school, and I was like, “grandma, grandma.” And she was like, “girl, if they start talking about each other’s mamas, just get the hell out the room. That’s all I can tell you.”

What precipitated the move?
My mom basically, who is just like my bestie. Her and my dad had a challenged relationship, and I think at that time, imagine that you couldn’t just call. A call to her mother it was several $100 a minute or whatever it was.

And so she just got to the point where I think in one of the best things she ever could have done for myself, and I have two sisters, is that she had a low tolerance for bullshit. I would say that she truly is my biggest inspiration for myself, my sisters, all of us. Because my mom, at the end of the day when her and my dad, they both went to Tufts. My mom was working on Wall Street. Even as a Black woman in the ’70s, helped put my dad through Columbia Business School.

And so by the time my dad, when he returned to Nigeria after schooling, he had been in the U.S. for 18 years continuously. So he was actually sent back to Nigeria as an expat. He was working for Chase Manhattan. Back then it was Chase Manhattan. Because it was an expat assignment it was only supposed to be two years. And so for my mom, she was like, “okay, I can give up my career on Wall Street for two years.” But two years turned into 12 years. And largely for that time in Nigeria, she worked. It wasn’t the same.

And so when she made the decision that there’s only so much I will tolerate, there’s only so much I will ever let my daughters see being tolerated. She basically was 42 years old, had not that much money, and she just picked up and she moved. As a 42-year-old with three daughters we moved back in with her mother. And she had to restart her career from scratch.

Back then, I had no context of money, but I do distinctly remember there was a conversation I remember her having with my grandmother, and she said, “if I could just make $36,000 a year after taxes, I would be set.” When I think about the sacrifices that she made for us, the sacrifice she made in terms of, again, “I’m just going to start over.” But I would also say that my mom was just my hero, because even in the context of that, she never spoke badly about my father. She always recognized that adult relationships, while they impact the kids, I don’t want it to influence the emotion behind or support any negative feelings.

I was only in Houston for six years, and it’s crazy because for me, going from Houston, from my middle school to then my high school. Crazy enough, my high school was one of only two predominantly Black high schools left in HSD Houston Independent School District. The other predominantly Black high school was Yates where George Floyd went. Not that I knew George Floyd, but I was a freshman when he was a senior. And we had the biggest football rivalry. We literally used to play in the Astrodome, which was a time where the Oilers, a.k.a. the Traitors, Tennessee Traitors got to love them. Kidding. Kidding, or not.

I don’t know how many Tennessee listeners we have, so go for it.
Sorry. I love you all. But it’s crazy because a lot of the pictures of him playing football, in all the pictures of him following his murder, he’s actually tackling or against a guy I dated.

Oh, wow.
And so the world is so small. But I had that experience, then went to Dartmouth. And so for me, Dartmouth, even though Dartmouth was much more similar to my growing-up experience in Nigeria, I had a much deeper awareness of race that made it feel very different. But I would say that because it felt very other. Out of my freshman class of 1000 students at Dartmouth there were only 47 Black students. So one being a minority for real, but then also the context, financially I was broke.

We were very much working poor, a lot of financial aid. I worked when I was on campus. But I also, which in a weird way ties back to The Lay Out, I ended up winning for my graduating class, the Dean’s Prize.

It was for enriching student life, right?
Yes. It was for the graduating senior who most significantly improved the quality of life for their fellow students. So when I think about everything I’ve done in life, it all for me ties back to community.

When you were in middle school or even high school, did you identify as Nigerian at all or part in Nigerian?
Funny enough, because I don’t think it’s anyone’s fault. I understand we know what we know. We don’t know what we don’t know. Again, because I am actually an introvert, I hated the attention, because imagine that it was a poor middle school in Houston. And so they were just fascinated by my sister and I. I remember that… So we got a lot of like, “did you ride to school on a tiger?” “No.” “Did you live in a hut?” “No.”

And I remember that even our school paper did a story on the exchange students. I was like, I’m sorry, who’s missing? If we’re exchange students, who did you trade off for us? That’s not what happened. We just live here now. And so a lot of that. And the other thing that I unfortunately got was growing up in Nigeria I spoke the King’s English. I was very proper. And so unfortunately I got a lot of, “You talk like a white girl.”

Did you have a British accent at any point?
I didn’t have a British accent, but I did not use contractions like “can’t,” “won’t,” “don’t.” They were not in my vocabulary. I was, “do not,” “will not,” “cannot.” So I would say that that was hard. And I think that for me at that point, because I was 11 going on 12, that I truly felt like I had to hide a lot of my identity. Because one, I felt like I had to change how I spoke. I felt like things that were just part of my growing up, which to be clear were not part of my life anymore, but I traveled a lot as a young person.

As I said, I would come to the U.S. I spent a lot of time in Europe as a kid, because it’s a long fight. I remember, for example, having a class, and in high school it was like, she went to New York. And that was from Houston. That was the biggest deal on the planet. So a lot of me had to be hidden.

When does that change? You mentioned Dartmouth and then you went to Harvard Business School, which probably was a third culture shock.
For me, Harvard Business School became a shock in another way. What I appreciate is that I do, even though I will say that I didn’t grow up in traditional understanding of Black and white, I have always gravitated towards the Black community. So even when I was at Dartmouth, I was an officer a Black student union. I always knew where my heart went.

So HBS for me, I was like, oh my God, you guys just really believe your own… Here’s a perfect example: In entrepreneurship class in HBS, This is 2004, spring of 2004.We did a case on the guys who started Nantucket Nectar, the juice. So we’re reading this case and basically the way the guys from Nantucket Nectar started, their family used to go to Nantucket every summer and they had a boat. So they’d zoom around on their boat, they’d sell juices, and then all of a sudden they’re like, “hey, we should start this juice company.” And so from their boat to the bigger boats.

So my classmates were like, “those guys, they just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and started a company.” I was like, “I’m sorry, what? What are you saying? Did you just suggest that there are bootstraps involved with people that summer in Nantucket and sell juices off their boat? What are you talking about?” It wasn’t even like a rowboat. It had a motor. So I will say that for me, HBS was just weird in that way.

Just out of touch or…?
No, I just think that when I see certain things happening in the world, now I get it. At the end of the day, the Enron guys were HBS guys. So not saying that I think that… And to be clear, I loved HBS. I think it was great. I think it produces wonderful leaders. But I think that as an example, my year, my graduating, my second year was the Bush-Kerry election. It was the first year that HBS had ever had a democratic society.

Wow.
Literally. And there had never been a democratic society at HBS. So I was part of that initial group, and two days before the election, because we were like, “what can we do to get these fools to not vote for… What can we do?” Because at this point, even then, it was things like potentially Supreme Court justices, it was about all these things that were critical. We’ve got to convince some of these guys.

Because I remember having a female classmate that I said to her, I was like, “you’re willing to vote for someone who might mean that you could lose your reproductive rights?” And her response was like, “if that’s what it takes to keep this country safe.” I’m like, “girl, what does your uterus have to do with the safety of this nation? You think a lot of yourself.”
So we literally got Warren Buffett to come speak two days before the election, because we were like, “maybe the rich Democrat can convince them. Maybe that’ll get them.” Maybe we change a few hearts and minds.

I remember having a classmate, a Black man who described basically this idea that, “Unfortunately I think in the Black community professionally, that there’s this feeling that you have to be twice as good to be seen as equal or even half as good.” It is what it is. We are judged more harshly. And so when he voices this, and this was a man that was basically doing a JD-MBA at Harvard, and there was a woman in my class [whose] father was a very senior exec at Chrysler, was very close in ranks to, from my understanding, Lee Iacocca and stuff. And she suggested to him that he was being “ridiculous.” Because if she had had that attitude and she went into her career, which involved racing, that she never would’ve made it because she was one of the only women.

In her mind, there was a parallel between her as a woman in a car-related field, given her family background and this Black man from the South Side of Chicago doing a JD-MBA was horrifying. And this is not to attack people. I think people are who they are. They are who their surroundings are. They are who their surroundings make them be.

They also don’t know what they don’t know in a lot of cases.
They don’t know what they don’t know. But I think that for me, that idea of someone is telling you that something hurts or they’re in pain or that this is what they’re experiencing.

Listen.
Listen. Your lived experience is not their lived experience. No one’s trying to be a victim.

I just always have to remember and operate from a place that I am not who I am because I’m so different, because I’m so special, because I deserve it in some other way, I’m lucky. I was lucky enough to be born to parents who put me in really good schools. I’m lucky enough to have had a mother who read to me every single day from when I was out of her uterus, being that important, uteruses.

So I have to move through the world doing what I can with that luck. I would like to live in a world where I hope that there would be someone who would take care of me and think of me if I wasn’t born in this lucky position.

It’s a lovely way to sort of bring it all full circle. You’re recognizing that you have some privilege and you’re using that privilege.
I have a lot of privilege.

So what are the next plans? So the Juneteenth celebration is next week. How do you look beyond that? Do you have a five-year plan? Do you have a deck? Do you… I’m sure you have a deck.
Honestly, that’s the one thing, shout out to my time in corporate America. Oh, I can make a deck like nobody’s business. So definitely I’m looking forward to a little bit of a break. This is actually a nice time because I’m also on Community Board Two. We actually just had our last meeting of the session, so we regroup in September.

That encompasses Fort Greene.
Yeah. So Community Board Two encompasses Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Dumbo, Williamsburg, Prospect Heights, down to Brooklyn. It’s huge.

Yeah, I think that might be my community too. I’m in Windsor Terrace. When did you come to Brooklyn? Was it right after school or…
I came because my younger sister, at least younger, not little sister, she hates that. But my little sister came. She went to Harvard undergrad. She came here right after undergrad. She’s a genius. So literally she is my biggest hero. She came here. She had two summers in undergrad where she worked for Citadel, the hedge fund in Chicago, because it was the only job left for her to be in Chicago, and she wanted to be in Chicago.

But then following Citadel, they wanted her to come back to Chicago. She wanted to be in New York. So she ended up at Goldman. She was there for 19 years. She was the firm’s youngest Black female partner. She did good work there. But Brooklyn is where she came. And so I came here after her, but now my whole family has relocated, other than my older sister who is in New Orleans. But my mom is now here from Houston. My aunt is now here from Houston. So we all live within a 10-minute walk of each other in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. So I love Brooklyn. I love it here. I just think it’s the best place in the world.

Do you want to shout out any businesses, cafes, restaurants, bars?
Yes, definitely. So Daya, which is my friend’s tapas bar in Crown Heights, they’re actually a partner for the after party for Juneteenth. And so that was fun. And that Rustik Tavern, shout out to Franz and that crew, they’re based in that building. But I wanted to be able to share the love. And so being able to bring in another Black-owned bar into the space. Because also, I want to make sure that no one’s waiting too long for a cocktail.

Love Aunts & Uncles. Absolutely love Nicole and Mike and everything they’re doing. Definitely go visit them at Brooklyn Museum and their residency there. If you can catch her around, love Makina Cafe. Also, those are Black-owned businesses that I love. But I also, huge fan of Evelina, that’s a great one. Oh my goodness, I also love Jalapa Jar in Brooklyn Navy Yard, they make the best salsa.

Ooh, I haven’t been there. I’ll have to check it out.
Literally the best salsa. You can get it from FreshDirect, but just get it from them, it’s cheaper and literally you can see them back, they’re making it. It’s so good. Those are just a few.

Also, I want to definitely check out the summer, the Paramount Theater that’s reopened. That looks beautiful. We actually had a community board meeting there recently. I’m excited about just more stuff at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. I think Lindsey Green has done such a great job in trying to make that a more welcoming space.

There’s a huge event space going in there. Right.
293. And funny enough, 293 is where the holiday market was this past year, which from our time together. It’s crazy because that was 2022, that we did our market together. But in 2023, so this past December, I actually had one weekend alone where I had over 100 small Black-owned businesses vending. Because I had over 80 at the Navy Yard and then close to 30 at Atlantic Terminal. So that one weekend was crazy.

But that space is an amazing space. I’m so excited to see everything that’s going to happen there. Because long-term, I’m thinking about green energy. But in this interim years until that happens it’s going to be great. There’s also IO Labs, which is opening at the Navy Yard. Basically that this year will be up to 26,000 square feet. By the end of next year 40,000 square feet of manufacturing, of basically beauty and wellness products, and primarily to serve women, BIPOC women. With the idea that again, that if you think about basically ownership in the beauty wellness space is 2.6 percent versus the spending, BIPOC communities is double digits.

And so this amazing concept that when I think about even some of the brands that I work with, like a Tamika from Brooklyn Bar Soap, she’s amazing, but she can’t do all the work she needs to do to try to get distribution, because she’s literally making her amazing products. But through IO Labs, they’ll be able to manufacture a million units, actually their MOQs, minimum order quantities, are 250 units.

So it’s really going to be groundbreaking in terms of helping some of these business. I’m very bullish on the Brooklyn Navy yard. So not necessarily in terms of go eat and have a drink there, although you can. But I’m just really excited about so many things that are happening in Brooklyn and for Brooklyn. And it’s always nice to just be able to walk out of your door and do so many of the things that you need to do.

Check out this episode of “Brooklyn Magazine: The Podcast” for more. Subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts.